Episode 182 - Grant Crowell, the “Videologist” on Social Video Marketing Part 1 of 2

Transcript

Susan Bratton: Welcome to DishyMix. I’m your host, Susan Bratton, and on today’s show you’re going to get to meet Grant Crowell. Grant is the Senior Analyst at Reel SEO. That’s r-e-e-l SEO, which is a website started by Mark Robertson around video and SEO and the confluence of the opportunity of online video for marketing. Grant is also part of the Video Commerce Consortium. He’s a founder at his company Grantastic Designs, and believe me, he is grantastic. You’re going to enjoy this show. As a matter of fact, it’s a two part series because there are so many assets and attributes to the whole conversation around video, and Grant is such a wealth of knowledge that I really wanted to take the time to get into this a bit as much as we can in two half hour segments. So this is part one of a two part series with Grant Crowell from Reel SEO and Grantastic Designs. He also is writing a legal guide to online video for business, and I thought legal, online video, not so interesting, and then I read the syllabus, the outline of the book that he’s writing and I thought, huh, yeah, we have to talk about this. This is super important as a marketer to understand the legal rights and ramifications of online video. So we’re going to talk about all kinds of video – social video, video SEO, distribution, syndication, analytics, legal ramifications and we’re going to have some fun. So lets get Grant on the show, welcome him. Hey Grant.

Grant Crowell: He Susan. Hey all you DishyMixers out there. Good to be on your show.

Susan Bratton: It’s so nice to have you, and thanks for the organization you’ve brought to the preparation of this show. You and I want to cover so much, we have a big appetite for conversation, so I’m glad to have you here. I want to start out specifically Grant just getting a levelset on the kinds of video, the styles, the formats of video. Not production but more like viral versus, you know, news information versus talking head pundit. What are people consuming from marketers, from people who are promoting a brand, a product to service online? What kind of video formats are you seeing evolve or emerge that you are most interested in or are recommending to people?

Grant Crowell: Well I should start out by saying what I cover for Reel SEO. I cover a lot in video that is considered to be, have an extra layer social. And you wouldn’t actually think that video by its very nature is supposed to be social. We consume so much of it, you know, it attracts so much of our senses over text and static images. The interesting thing is we had to come up with a term for that because so much of the video that first came out was just repurposed television commercials, or if it was something like that was supposed to be fun and engaging, it wasn’t really market driven. It was more of ha ha, lets see more of a monkey on a ski boat or something like that. So for marketers we’ve found it’s common place so that marketers are slowly getting it more and more that the videos you do are not trying to be repurposed from what you might do from traditional media, such as television, that it should be something that is unique, that is engaging, that is attractive, that makes people want to share it out there. At the same time you have a business going around. I mean it can be something that you wish to promote on top of that. I mean video is the medium and video is becoming more and more attractive and more and more accessible out there. What marketers are really trying to do and understand is how can I create something that’s efficient and engaging, and the challenge for marketers is to find out how can I also wear many hats and be a producer without having to know so much video production, how can I know how to optimize video without taking away the human element, what are the proper places I should be distributing my video out there because YouTube is good but there’s a lot more, and so there’s audiences that are more granual and more targeted. And so combine all those things you have a really good video marketing strategy but it takes a good amount of expertise and at least having an expert to show you, “Okay, here’s what you need to focus on for your type of marketing and for your type of audience.”

Susan Bratton: So give me some examples of video formats that you see in use out there now.

Grant Crowell: Well a good video format is one I call, that’s easier for marketers to do, is called run and gun. I actually happen to be doing a piece on this for Reel SEO, which is handy where you see people with their flip camcorders, more and more common place, and it’s bout capturing the moment. There’s a good book out about doing real time marketing PR by David Merriam Scott of the new rules in marketing PR, which is about, we don’t have time to do a video set up. You know, sometimes you have an idea that pops in your head; hey why not attach that camcorder in your car and repeat it and then say that so then when you get to your house, when you get to your office you put it out there because people are listening to you as a trusted source of valuable content. That video content is personality driven. Or you do what I do often, which is the interview format. I find that, and other video professionals I’ve talked to, marketing professionals, find the interview format to be very good because you’re bouncing stuff off of people, just like you and I are doing here right now. I mean something like this can be done via a Skype video interview where you have it out there, it’s packaged, it could be a web cam so you don’t have to wait for so much time for the video to transcode like you do on larger systems, and it’s just get it out there. That’s a really good set up. Another set up is the event. When you have an event like say a conference, there’s so many things going on. And you can always feature something that’s B roll footage, you could always shoot somebody, you could always try to get an angle of having an opinion around it. I find personality driven video to be very, very good where it’s not just “I’m just going to shoot something of somebody else”, but you put yourself in there or you put somebody else there with a personality. As you can tell by the way I talk, I have a personality that some people might really like, some people might rub the wrong way but it’s going to make you remember that video more. For example Susan, if you took a photo of something and there wasn’t any people in it, it might not attract you as much as a person with some expression or people with some expression in the video. Why? Because most people are social. That’s the same thing of what marketers need to understand and gauge with video, and that’s the format that I really see going is the interview and personality driven format.

Susan Bratton: All right, so we have run and gun, we have interview, we have event coverage, and we have personality driven. How would you say personality driven is different than interview?

Grant Crowell: Personality driven is not necessarily different from interview; personality driven is a style. And an interview can be one who is an interviewer and an interviewee, one or more than one person, and personality driven is you’re not just asking questions, like somebody who you might be a reporter but you are being a commentator. You can even be commentating on the experience as it’s happening. Sometimes when I do real basic post production work I might add my own comments after the video. Now for example, a fun humorous way is what you see with Steven Colbert doing it on, you know, his own take when he does off of Bill O’Reilly and he has some fun and there’s always some talking points on the side. Now that’s a fun thing but that can be used for marketing purposes, what someone who’s just shooting a video can take it afterwards and say “Okay, here’s some fun little talking points from there. And so you’re getting a flavor video on top of the information and that makes you recollect it a lot better. Now the studies that I’ve seen with testing a video is that if it’s not just an interview but if it is somebody knowing what kind of commentary to add that appeals to the target market, that works a lot better. It can either be in the video or it can be in a blog post around the video, and I even do this for myself with a piece called Grant’s Rant, and I find it to be  really engaging for my audience ‘cause they get to know me better through the video.

Susan Bratton: I think I should probably put a blog post with links to all of these different styles of video, you know, formats that you’re producing. What about how-tos and tutorials? I would think for marketers that could be a really valuable and rich area of video information.

Grant Crowell: It certainly is. And how-to’s and tutorials are a great means, of course, for, what I also find when you mentioned how-to and tutorials is that it clears up confusion.
For example, how-to’s and tutorials are actually great in the online retail space for marketers. I’ve interviewed Zappos and they mentioned with their own videos, the how-tos and tutorials they do over using the products actually produce a much lower rate of returns than if they didn’t have videos around it, because videos are very explanatory. I like watching videos for how-to’s. I go to e-How and How Cast, and you can also go to specialty sites like bobvila.com to watch the how-to’s, something like around the house. I mean I’m all thumbs just trying to do home maintenance, but watching the video, ‘cause I am a visual person, it helps me remember and helps give me good instructions. What I do for Reel SEO is I might do how-to on like how to embed a video in your Slide Share, how to embed a video in Google Docs, things that are just simple, straightforward, but also remember when you’re doing a how-to it really is about try to be succinct. If you have long pauses and people get distracted, you want to still try to be succinct with you how-to’s and do some post production. But it really is as simple as doing a video screen capture, which you can do with some very basic software for your Windows or Mac computer. So I always recommend doing some how-to’s as a marketer to give back to your audience, give them something of value that’s easy to produce.

Susan Bratton: I like this interview so far. You have a lot of rich content and I’m really appreciating the distinctions that you’re drawing. It reminded me that before we started doing the interview we were talking about the difference between visual, auditory and kinesthetic learners, and that’s certainly something that marketers have to think about, they have to think about the fact that their customers are intermediates and experts and novices, they’re different personas or customer segmentation that they’re working with, there are different kinds of people consume content in different ways. And so I think video is definitely one of those pieces that’s additive to what you’re doing that gives those visual consumers of content what they’re looking for. How do you compensate for the, you know, other people who learn by doing and they can’t learn, they can’t sit still and watch a video? What are some other things that you might recommend that go along with it?

Grant Crowell: Well one thing that I think should be done regardless with a lot of video is write a synopsis of the video; one for SEO purposes because the search engines need actual text to index, they can’t pull the actual video file itself and figure out what you’re saying in it. There are actually technologies for that and YouTube can do that on some level, but that does not affect the search algorithms one bit. So you should be doing that regardless. You should not always be thinking about even when you’re doing video on expecting it to be only a visual experience. You also should be expecting it to be a textual experience. Sometimes what I do with some videos is I might make it an audio only experience. Why? Because I know some people like to listen to a podcast show I did when they’re in their car or when they can’t necessarily be paying attention to the video, even though what’s interesting is a lot of people might watch a video as background noise, so you need to have the audio sound real good. Even though people think video is “Oh, is it all about the images?”, I say no. You have to also know us, we are multi taskers, we’re distracted, we purposefully distract ourselves. Very, very rarely are we just sitting down in front of the computer or a mobile device and just look at that, and even if we are we have so many other visual elements around us. We have so many other things on our mind. So for that group – and it is a large group of people who don’t respond well to video- give them something that they do respond well that relates to the video, and I would say use a transcript, take the best segment of your video and summarize it. I do that with my longer videos is I just say “Here’s the meat. If you’ve just 30 seconds and you want to know what this video’s about, here’s what it’s about.”

Susan Bratton: Well one of the things that I also like that I’ve seen you do, I think you do this on Reelseo.com is you’ll do a video, like I think I saw this on your interview with Mari Smith when you met her at Blog World Expo – I was there, I didn’t even see either one of you. You put the time code in, you know, at 3 minutes and 5 seconds Mari talks about blah, blah, blah, and, you know, you had like three time codes with special places in the video where people could watch, and you had that also with a write up, so I thought that was very well done. It takes a level of organization and discipline to do that, so you have to premeditatively build it into the timeframe of the work that you’re producing to do all of that.

Grant Crowell: Yeah, we’re fortunate that it’s our job and it’s my job to do just that, and I’ve learned enough to how to do it efficiently. And you make mistakes along the way with, you know, things that are time consuming. And, I mean for me I’m a very fast typer. So I listen to the interview afterwards and then I transcribe it, and then from there I know how to do proper headers because if I just do a very long transcription, people are going to go “Oh gosh, this is thousands of words long, I don’t have time for this.” But if you break it off with headers, then you’re giving people a context they can wrap their brain around and they’re much more likely to read the whole thing or at least go to the parts their interested in, and I like doing the time codes, the time stamps because then people can choose to go to a certain point. I mean I look at it as the iTunes theory; give people a choice if they want the album or if they want the song, and that way there’s something for everybody. It’s, you know, you start off with what can everybody appeal to and then you can make things granular for, okay, here’s somebody who wants to just get a certain portion of the video. Here’s somebody who just wants to know what the summary is of the article, you know, and that is appealing and it’s not hard to do. It actually is a very efficient way to work when you’re in the mindset of going in to do an article or any type of program with video.

Susan Bratton: One of the things that I’ve done is I’ve taught my transcriber, I use the same transcriber for all of my work, we keep her quite busy. And she now writes the section headers whenever I’m turning an audio product into an e-book. I don’t do it for my general transcripts every week on my show, but I do have her write the headers and then I go in and edit them if I need to, but she does a really good job, like she’s getting the context of it as she’s transcribing it, and she’s pulling out the highlights of it and making me those headers. And so, you know, if you’re using a transcriptionist just ask them to do that for you. You don’t have to do it all yourself. So I want to move on to the production value. We talked a little bit about the run and gun, flip cam, conversation in your car, and you know, I think those are good as a part of what you do unless you’re doing a personality driven kind of a pundit thing, but for a marketer themselves what kind of – and I know you’re going to say audio is the number one thing you have to do and if you don’t I’m going to say it – what are some of the things that marketers can do that maybe is a little bit better than flip cam but doesn’t necessarily have to be a production crew hire?

Grant Crowell: Sure. I mean, a good part of it comes down to budget. And another part of it comes down…

Susan Bratton: Assume that there’s no budget.

Grant Crowell: Zero budget.

Susan Bratton: I always assume that there’s no budget for anything because marketers often have to make something work with gorilla tactics, show that they’re getting results and then they can build a budget in for the future. So lets just always start it like minimal budget.

Grant Crowell: Lets start off with assuming they have a computer that’s working.

Susan Bratton: Yeah, yeah.

Grant Crowell: Or they can get access to a computer at the library.

Susan Bratton: No, no, it’s not that bad. Come on. It’s not that bad. But just assume we have small, medium and enterprise listeners, and so we’re really trying to make sure we don’t leave people behind ‘cause often the small and medium business owners can take so much advantage of it because they’re nimble, where the big guys, they have so much around legalities, which we’re going to cover later, that it’s almost harder for them. So I think small and medium business naturally lends itself, especially to run and gun and the next level up of video. So tell us what that’s like.

Grant Crowell: Sure. Well that’s how I got started. I, like a lot of other people, experiment. I mean my days of experimentation go back well before the web when I was trying to do documentary video right and going through college and seeing what is out there, what can I learn, find out, what will just make me get a product out. And there is, trying to find the good balance of what I have written for Reel SEO called Business Quality Video. And found it interesting in the companies that I’ve interviewed that are on the enterprise level, sometimes they will have no budgets or like you mentioned, there are legal obstacles, the attorneys won’t allow them to do some things or that may take months and months to get things approved and nearly on the level that they want. So it is easier for most small to medium size businesses to just go on and do video. The question is, okay, say you don’t have a budget out there. I’ve told people, I’ve been a consultant to a lot of such companies and also individuals who have wanted to take the lead for their company on doing this on what they can do as the cheapest, but at the same time say I work with a very bare bones or what I like to call no bones budget. What I always tell people is who do you have that you work with that can do a trade with you for equipment, but at the same time make sure that it’s simple enough, and I tell people start up with the simplest thing. If you’ve never used a flip camcorder, start off with a flip camcorder. If you have, go one level up. Like what I do a lot of my shows are on a web cam but then I use a high quality microphone attached to it. Why? Because I know the type of video I’m going to be doing.

Susan Bratton: What mic do you use Grant?

Grant Crowell: I use a Blue Yeti THX USB 2.0 microphone. It’s $150 microphone, and I love it. I have used good quality microphones, which we call for XLR cables because it prevents the type of noise you might get with some microphones, but what I like about this one that’s been out for probably about six months or so, it doesn’t have what we call latency. And by latency I mean that when I talk I might hear it in my headphones like a half second later, which is very weird and that’s been a problem with microphones that are connected to the computer. But there are better quality ones like this that I find is the best bang for your buck. But part of it comes down to I also use a metal pop filter so you don’t hear the pa and the buzz that normally are captured when you might be using like a headset mic. If you have to use a headset, you have $50 bucks, I recommend Logitech. Plantronics has a good one as well. Sometimes it comes out to testing these things, but the hard part is that usually when you test out these things they don’t allow you to return it if it’s a microphone. Part of that has to do with germs. So it usually is a good idea if you’re really serious about it, going to an actual dealer and they typically have a room where you can test these things out. But other than that, for $150 bucks I say this is probably the best that you can do. If you’re doing a show, if you’re in a fixed location, then having a web cam, then having a good microphone and even invest in a little bit of lighting, even like the cheap stuff at a Home Depot is a very, very good way to start, you know. You want to keep things simple and work your way up. People have a problem with just getting too excited and buy a lot of stuff that they don’t use and then it gets intimidating for them. So I say start small, work yourself way up the next level. Seen It has some great reviews on cheap camcorders that are a step up from flip. Camcorderinfo.net also has some good reviews. Just take your time, you know. Go out there. And even at Reel SEO we feature some good video producers that talk about what kind of equipment to get when you’re just starting up as a marketer but you want to do business quality video.

Susan Bratton: You’re just a font of, you’re like a videopedia. So right, and you’re the videologist, that’s why they call you the videologist. I like it.

Grant Crowell: I think that’s just what I call myself, but I’d like that if people start calling me that. I think you’re the first. Thanks Susan.

Susan Bratton: I’m the first but not the last.

Grant Crowell: You are.

Susan Bratton: Not the last.

Grant Crowell: The first recorded.

Susan Bratton: So I want to do one of those big picture top down organizing principle discussions, conversations with you. I want you to tell me how you view and pigeonhole and organize the online video world with regard to where video can live – so social video, video SEO on your own website, syndication through OVP’s, online video platforms and CDM’s. Is there another category I’m not even thinking of? Start us there, okay? I’ve got something. I’ve got my, you know, my web cam and my Blue Yeti and I’ve decided to do some running gun and some personality driven how-to stuff, all right, so I’ve got some stuff. Now what am I going to do with it? Tell me how you organize and sort that concept.

Grant Crowell: All right, lets say you got your stuff and your stuff is your equipment. The next thing you need is a plan. And I would, what I do with people, as well as even myself, is I think of what does my audience want. What appeals to my audience? What do I understand about my audience, and so it helps me think of the framework for the type of video I’m going to do. What’s going to be the content? Am I going to be doing interviews? Am I going to be doing commentary? Am I going to reline the latest news? Am I going to be doing something where I can take a screen capture and feature that in video of myself or other people? So that really is the strategy. I mean there are several P’s and the first P is plan. You know, planning to get your equipment like you described, say you got your equipment. Well the next plan is on your content strategy, you know. So to think of how do you want to project yourself out there? Who’s the competition that you’re dealing with? What are the keywords that you want to show up for? How do you want to appeal to people to make them want to share your video? I think the strategy today for marketers around is understand once you have assuring strategy that works with the video distribution sites, like a YouTube, but also think beyond that. Vimeo is a great site for educational stuff. It’s very user friendly, great high definition quality, and I think only like about $60 a year for basically having a (unintelligible) cap. Blip TV is also an account I use – regular content, it’s great for doing RSS feeds, you know, if you want people to subscribe to your video content out there, you can even put it up on iTunes. So part of looking at what are the basic video distribution sites where you don’t have to spend an arm and a leg, online video platforms are nice because it’s kind of a way where a company offers the technology solution and as a digital asset management for your video and other things as well too, it can even be images or audio, and saying “We’ll take care of that for you.” I’ll tell you why Susan, because if I started talking with people about content delivering that works and things like (unintelligible), Amazon, their eyes would glaze over. It’s something that you get into the technical area and then it becomes intimidating for a lot of marketers. Even I, myself, I’ve been in a space for a number of years and I have to brush up quite a bit in that area. So I always tell people start off with the services that are free and then work your way up to things that might be in a low level of pay, like a Vimeo, like a Blip TV. There’s also a program at Reel SEO that we sometimes use for videos or that’s one of our advertisements disclosure there, called Bizarre, that is a low level, I should say affordable way of doing video management. There are other ones out there like Sorrenson, Bright Cove that cost $100 on up, but they could be pretty good at managing your digital assets out there too, and as a means of also saying what if you want that video to be out in the mobile space, what if you want it to be out on an iPad. These are areas marketers need to consider, so that is the next area, which is promotion, distribution and on top of that Susan, analytics. Google is very good but there are also services that do analytics on video. I use a service called Wistia. I love it. Also disclosure, I get an account with them too. And it’s great because I can test out video and showcase it to other people before I make it live, get their comments at time coded places and just have a means for if I want to have that video easily shared with other people and easily embedded. The whole point of working with a good video solution that’s technology is making sure it’s easily sharable. Like I can set it up on my Facebook, I can send it out via Twitter, ‘cause you can put video in Twitter as well. For marketers, they tend to want an all-encompassing solution. I hate to say it as there isn’t one there yet but you can work with different parts. You’re probably familiar with Tube Mogul where it can automatically distribute out to a number of video sharing distribution sites, but it doesn’t allow the level of granular optimization if you want to adjust the copy to get that right title tag. So there’s a lot and that’s good. You can be as simple as you want or you could have a large solution that covers all these areas. The key is to find out how much time do you really have ‘cause you still got a business to run.

Susan Bratton: Okay, let me ask some clarifying questions here. When we talk about some of the video destination sites, I’m going to try to give these names and I want you to help me with it. When I think about things like iTunes or YouTube, I’m really thinking about a video destination site. When I think about things like – and maybe that’s where things like Vimeo and Blip TV go as well. Then I think about content management systems and distribution systems, and that’s where you get into the Bizarre, Sorrenson, Bright Cove. But I don’t really understand how you would use both the distribution systems, like a Tube Mogul or Traffic Geyser, versus an online video platform versus something like Wistia, which is new – Wistia, how do you spell that?

Grant Crowell: There you go, you got it. W-i-s-t-i-a, Wistia. And that makes it more interesting because that’s a site that’s also used for project management for those people who like to produce a lot of video, so just by our discussion here you can see it can be a little bit tricky and now understand these new terms, but I’ll tell you and your audience this: an online video platform is a technology solution that’s meant for you to not to have to worry about things that might be a little too techy, like content delivery networks which is all about somebody’s paying for this bandwidth. I mean when you have an account with your internet service provider, who’s paying for that bandwidth, who’s paying for the servers? That’s where the online video platform, they take care of it for you because they have so many other customers so they’re able to get you a better deal than if you try to do this yourself and without all the headaches that normally come around with it. Online video platforms are great for them to manage your digital assets, for you to be able to put content around them, you know, copy around them, metadata, things for the search engines. Also with choosing your image thumbnail on there, for you having your own custom video player that you can choose and how it looks. You know, even having various different types of channels or categories, you know, depending on how big you want to make it or how simple you want to make it.

Susan Bratton: Butt that’s really site side if you want to have video on your website, that’s where you’re going to use an online video platform, right?

Grant Crowell: Well you can really use both because YouTube itself is a video player that you can embed.

Susan Bratton: Yeah.

Grant Crowell: The video distribution sites do this very thing. The issue here really is that the goal that I tell people in video marketing is you want to show up your video, have it show up, take people directly to your site – I call this website video SEO. Things tend to get diluted if you rely on a YouTube or if you rely on another distribution site, you know, out there, which is not necessarily meant for the purposes of what’s best for you and your marketing goals. I mean that is the tradeoff of getting something for free of for cheap. But with a good professional online video platform you can have it set up so that when that video shows up in Google search results – and if you do it right with an image thumbnail and that’s great for basically getting peoples eyeballs to you, works great for us at Reel SEO – then it takes people directly to your site. That means that you don’t have the competition of YouTube and a whole bunch of other unrelated videos. Susan there’s something I’ve got to share. When I gave a presentation at Search Engine Strategies Conference in this past October, when I asked the audience there – and I was speaking on video SEO and one side of me was a developer from Google and another was the author of the book on YouTube marketing, An Hour A Day – I asked the audience “How many of you are doing something other than YouTube?” And less than 10% of the audience raised their hand. That, YouTube is still the mentality where most people doing marketing think, and I’m saying is that’s one area, but there’s a much more important area, which is just what you said. Use an online video platform; heck, just know how to put video on your site and take people to your site. It’s much better for returns.

Susan Bratton: Now if you use something like Bizarre, Sorrenson or Bright Cove and you have this video on your site, you can also distribute that video through social and you could also put pieces of it on YouTube, right? I mean it’s not like it’s not one or the other. You could do both. What you’re recommending, if I’m getting you clearly Grant, is start with the ownership of your content on your site, right?

Grant Crowell: That is exactly correct. I tell people this; website video SEO is the same thing as video SEO, which is what SEO is about, which is bringing people to your site. I mean what if SEO was about so that you can optimize content on somebody else’s site? That would sound really strange. Yet that’s how people are approaching video SEO. They’re thinking “Okay, I’ll have the content optimized on YouTube.” And so when a result shows up YouTube will pop up. And sure, that may be your video content technically speaking, but it’s not taking people to your site, and your site, just like with DishyMix, your site is the hub for your business model. It’s the hub of where you ultimately want to attract your audience to. And granted it will always be audiences that only choose to go on YouTube or Facebook or even a Twitter, and that still has marketing value, but it’s a much larger and greater marketing value to bring people to your own site. So website video SEO is about SEO best practices, which is about bringing people to your site.

Susan Bratton: Yeah. And that totally makes sense. I want to get more into that in the next episode. I think this is a good time for us to break from part one to part two, and when we get to part two what I want to go over is your latest thinking about video SEO. If we go with the premise that we don’t want to put everything on YouTube or Vimeo or Blip, we want the content on our site, how do we show up in the Google search results with the video that’s on our website. That’s I think the next question we should start with on part two. Does that sound good to you?

Grant Crowell: I’m looking forward to it already. I can’t wait to hear what I have to say.

Susan Bratton: I can’t wait either. All right, well you have been listening to Grant Crowell. Grant is the Senior Analyst and videologist at Reel SEO. He is the founder of Grantastic Designs. He’s writing a legal guide to online video for business, and we’re going to be talking about that whole hairy rats nest that he’s going to help us figure out how to navigate through in the next episode. You’ve listened to part one of a two part series with Grant and I. I hope you’ll tune in next week for part two. And you can follow Grant at @grantcrowell – he says Crowell like Krall almost but it’s spelled Crowell, so it’s Grant C-r-o-w-e-l-l, @grantcrowell. You can find him there, you can read him on Reel SEO. He’s syndicated a lot of places, and I’m going to put a bunch of links on the DishyMix page at Personal Life Media so you can find all of his great work as well. You can go to that one place on my site for DishyMix and get everything. All right, I am your host, Susan Bratton. This has been a good update on online video. I hope you’ve enjoyed it and I hope you’ll tune in next week for part two. Grant, thank you so much for getting us started with this.

Grant Crowell: Thank you. It has been my virtual pleasure.

Susan Bratton: I’m your host, Susan Bratton. I hope you have a great day and thanks again for listening. I’ll talk to you next week.